tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2456802468539868519.post5482446702557669648..comments2023-10-12T02:21:40.102-07:00Comments on English Historical Fiction Authors: The Birth of "Bloody Mary"Debra Brownhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03256313302199653185noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2456802468539868519.post-72799623716719846732015-02-18T16:55:55.331-08:002015-02-18T16:55:55.331-08:00Truly, eviscerating priests, hacking off their gen...Truly, eviscerating priests, hacking off their genitals and stuffing them in their mouths, drawing and quartering victims hoping to prolong a death as long as possible so the victim can witness it, nailing body parts to doorways and mounting heads on pikes, does not amount to any form humane treatment. I think the effort to claim the moral high ground here on either side is a little indefensible.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16678958879344986420noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2456802468539868519.post-64797897600645444822013-02-18T20:32:48.295-08:002013-02-18T20:32:48.295-08:00Funny how Mary gets the bad reputation when her ow...Funny how Mary gets the bad reputation when her own father is the one who formed his own personal religion on the selfish terms of wanting a divorce or annulment from the church, just so he could marry the girl he was committing adultery with! He had shut down many more monasteries and martyrd many more martyrs than even his daughter Mary did, except his was to try and justify his adultery! nice try! i can't wait to read The Chalice! The Crown was great!Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02407436990981467253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2456802468539868519.post-52617911502892145292013-02-18T20:20:34.924-08:002013-02-18T20:20:34.924-08:00Wow! Really?! Typing corrections?! Don't even ...Wow! Really?! Typing corrections?! Don't even read this blog if all you are going to do is judge the typing corrections. Get some depth…..wow. Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02407436990981467253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2456802468539868519.post-36049002607595493472013-02-18T20:19:09.145-08:002013-02-18T20:19:09.145-08:00Interesting, isn't it? How Mary got the terrib...Interesting, isn't it? How Mary got the terrible reputation, when Elizabeth and her father killed many more innocent people, and for more selfish reasons. I cannot wait to read The Chalice! I loved Innocent Traitor, by Allisor Weir, and obviously, The Crown. I think that people miss that similarities and choose the arguments instead, when it comes to religion. Good grief! Just try to get along!Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02407436990981467253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2456802468539868519.post-12662450854931902592013-02-18T20:18:47.468-08:002013-02-18T20:18:47.468-08:00Interesting, isn't it? How Mary got the terrib...Interesting, isn't it? How Mary got the terrible reputation, when Elizabeth and her father killed many more innocent people, and for more selfish reasons. I cannot wait to read The Chalice! I loved Innocent Traitor, by Allisor Weir, and obviously, The Crown. I think that people miss that similarities and choose the arguments instead, when it comes to religion. Good grief! Just try to get along!Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02407436990981467253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2456802468539868519.post-36636536385728443302013-02-18T16:09:30.443-08:002013-02-18T16:09:30.443-08:00Definitely something to add to my reading list. G...Definitely something to add to my reading list. Good historical fiction can be as rare and valuable as a perfect emerald, and I am always looking for the green glow of accurate research, careful depiction, and creative nerve.Mickey B and the Blog of Wonderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17447951662182811200noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2456802468539868519.post-26356675994400319972012-04-04T07:51:58.495-07:002012-04-04T07:51:58.495-07:00Part of the reason that "Bloody" Mary is...Part of the reason that "Bloody" Mary is looked upon so poorly is bad press. Mary had protestants burned as heretics because of their religion and threat to the (Roman) Church. Elizabeth had Catholics executed as traitors and threats to the English Kingdom. Elizabeth was more politically adept is her handling of such and had a longer time to establish (and rewrite) how history would perceive her.<br /><br />Mary also had the ill-grace, from the English viewpoint, of loving her mother's homeland and marrying a Spanish prince, who -many feared- would try to become king of England.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2456802468539868519.post-38168727061291083572012-03-30T09:24:51.791-07:002012-03-30T09:24:51.791-07:00Jane Grey was only queen by name for 9 days. There...Jane Grey was only queen by name for 9 days. There was no coronation and she was not acknowledged universally. In fact, she didn't want to be queen at all, and recognised Mary's right to the succession. Mary is now regarded as England's first queen regnant.<br />This shouldn't be about our current religious agendas. I am an atheist, and I am not of either Protestant or Catholic background. I just like to be objective and as accurate as possible about the truth.Marypanahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08418953285267116721noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2456802468539868519.post-64133393636828156772012-03-29T11:51:50.744-07:002012-03-29T11:51:50.744-07:00Fascinating essay. I look forward to seeing a more...Fascinating essay. I look forward to seeing a more realistic portrait of Mary emerge. In reading THE CROWN I was surprised at your depiction of Mary in the novel, since I had read that she was ugly, stiff, etc. I loved the scene with Mary, there was such dramatic tension. I hope there will be a sequel to THE CROWN!Erin Cashmanhttp://www.erincashman.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2456802468539868519.post-88153214357013024902012-03-23T09:11:13.738-07:002012-03-23T09:11:13.738-07:00The Protestants, via Northumberland, had broken th...The Protestants, via Northumberland, had broken the ice for having a female on the throne with Jane Grey, so they could hardly use that as a rallying cry. As for all the torture and burnings, it was a claim of the Church, probably ringing through people's heads daily, that God was going to burn people forever in Hell- especially heretics, no doubt. So that may have had a huge influence on the way strongly religious monarchs handled their heretics. And I can certainly understand Mary's resentment.Debra Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03256313302199653185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2456802468539868519.post-46638902308465329362012-03-23T06:41:04.887-07:002012-03-23T06:41:04.887-07:00I believe if Mary had been queen for a longer peri...I believe if Mary had been queen for a longer period of time, she would have had the time to do other things to put her on the historical map for other reasons. Henry was much more bloodier than his daughter, and he didn't have the commitment Mary had, he punished protestants one day, catholics the next day, etc.Mad_Twinkienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2456802468539868519.post-20454094824756992022012-03-23T04:41:55.846-07:002012-03-23T04:41:55.846-07:00Thanks for your comments, everyone! Mary stirs up ...Thanks for your comments, everyone! Mary stirs up emotion even now , that is one of the reasons I am so fascinated by her. I too feel that the harshness of history has singled Mary out. Burnings are a truly horrific death. But the Carthusian Martyrs, tortured, starved and then executed by Henry VIII by being disemboweled while alive--I think they might have something to say about inhuman ends. All deaths in the name of religion upset me greatly and one of my challenges as a historical novelist is to attempt to get into the minds of those who lived long ago and try to understand.Nancy Bilyeauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03081147714919653976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2456802468539868519.post-47297011568003990142012-03-23T03:55:07.866-07:002012-03-23T03:55:07.866-07:00Typing correction: 'woman' not 'women&...Typing correction: 'woman' not 'women'.Marypanahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08418953285267116721noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2456802468539868519.post-48331893542959429172012-03-23T03:52:45.167-07:002012-03-23T03:52:45.167-07:00I think you need to study history more closely bef...I think you need to study history more closely before judging monarchs who lived more than 400 years ago. The 'soubriquet' doesn't fit at all. How can you state that being beheaded or hung, drawn and quartered is a more humane way of killing people for their religious beliefs? It's all persecution. Have a look at the number of people who were killed under her brother's reign thanks to Somerset and Northumberland after the rebellions - thousands! But we live in different times and have different notions of morality. In actual fact Mary passed a few laws to remedy the disastrous policies under Henry and Edward: 20 August 1553 a proclamation issued ‘Ordering Reform of Gold and Silver Coin.’; September 1553 a proclamation issued ‘Announcing Payment of Edward VI’s Debts, Renouncing Subsidy’. She was only queen for 5 years and she was the first queen regnant in England at a time when female rule was not welcomed. She had to struggle to obtain her accession to the throne thanks to to the machinations of Northumberland, and against all the odds she succeeded. I think she was a pretty admirable women for her time, despite her religious zeal. Selective history is not scholarly and simply inaccurate.Marypanahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08418953285267116721noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2456802468539868519.post-62544914798538626652012-03-22T16:25:28.701-07:002012-03-22T16:25:28.701-07:00I think the title was well-earned. If my math is ...I think the title was well-earned. If my math is correct,<br />Mary I executed about 4.43 Protestants per month<br />Henry VIII + Elizabeth I executed about 1 Catholic every 3.35 months.<br /><br />Most of those executed under Mary were burned at the stake. Most of those under Henry VIII and Elizabeth were beheaded or executed in a more humane way.<br /><br />In any case, I do not believe that is way sovereigns should be judged because each sovereign has very different threats they encounter.<br /><br />I refuse to give any credit to Mary no matter how nice she was a child and teenager, because she was a very poor Queen, accomplishing nothing much of any use to the country. Her main concern was forcing the country to be Catholic again, when the country clearly did not want to be. And I simply cannot like anybody who believes she can't get pregnant because God is mad at her for not executing enough heretics. I think she is heinous and totally deserves being called Bloody Mary. <br /><br />If the soubriquet fits, wear it!Katherine Marcellanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2456802468539868519.post-14082948231544747312012-03-22T13:27:56.066-07:002012-03-22T13:27:56.066-07:00Fascinating stuff. :)Fascinating stuff. :)Cersei The Fairhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08354744354090752261noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2456802468539868519.post-76571213473232307412012-03-22T10:00:59.129-07:002012-03-22T10:00:59.129-07:00One aspect of this reputation is that it takes a l...One aspect of this reputation is that it takes a long time for the academic changes in historical method and bias to filter down to the popular level. The biographical studies of the past few years have had little impact on the reading public's general notion of the first Queen Regnant of England. See my review essay published on First Things: http://www.firstthings.com/onthesquare/2009/11/therersquos-something-about-bloody-mary <br />Thanks for a great and well balanced post.Stephanie A. Mannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14796489639420491857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2456802468539868519.post-10230017218308111872012-03-22T09:18:15.955-07:002012-03-22T09:18:15.955-07:00One of the most difficult things to overcome is th...One of the most difficult things to overcome is the modern tendency to try to apply 21 century values to earlier eras. Thank you for this article!Lauren Gilberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02938146663557663891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2456802468539868519.post-33959023789170310632012-03-22T07:40:27.102-07:002012-03-22T07:40:27.102-07:00Fascinating read. Thanks.Fascinating read. Thanks.Jenna Dawlishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17041431937600905275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2456802468539868519.post-13955389160436900382012-03-21T23:03:31.379-07:002012-03-21T23:03:31.379-07:00Fasinating posts. AS a child the game bloody mary ...Fasinating posts. AS a child the game bloody mary terrified me..lol. The blood shed in the name of religion is both a interesting and depressing subject. As for Mary...sadly i don't think she will able to shake the name bloody mary...her crimes cannot easily be overlooked.Kimberly @ Caffeinated Reviewerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15658833731713991138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2456802468539868519.post-8373678996859107772012-03-21T21:31:46.337-07:002012-03-21T21:31:46.337-07:00bloody well saidbloody well saidAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com