tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2456802468539868519.post4889525195132208175..comments2023-10-12T02:21:40.102-07:00Comments on English Historical Fiction Authors: "The Rack Seldom Stood Idle..."Debra Brownhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03256313302199653185noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2456802468539868519.post-69684365157843225212012-05-26T18:45:31.262-07:002012-05-26T18:45:31.262-07:00I happened to be searching for details of 17th-cen...I happened to be searching for details of 17th-century Dutch gibbets today, to provide context for those of Amsterdam at the Volewijk. In English, tiresomely, "gibbet" and "gallows" were not fully distinguished as the names of objects, although hanging in irons was not confused with execution and did not happen at the same places.<br /><br />This put me in mind of the Halifax gibbet, the use of which was abandoned in the 1650s. It was very similar to the infernal machine that was not invented by Dr J.-I. Guillotin, who did not approve of capital punishment, and who was not executed by that or any other method.<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halifax_GibbetDavid Harleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2456802468539868519.post-30529924659571924272012-05-26T18:24:45.051-07:002012-05-26T18:24:45.051-07:00<>
Strangulation -- 10 to 20 minutes -- was...<><br /><br />Strangulation -- 10 to 20 minutes -- was exactly what the short drop inflicted.<br /><br />The standard drop, which preceded the long drop of 1872, was intended to break the neck. This was used at the Nuremberg Trials, by US Master Sgt. John C. Woods, supposedly an experienced hangman. Several of the condemned strangled to death, for between 15 and 25 minuted.<br /><br />Nazis under British jurisdiction were executed by the long drop method. The executioner was Albert Pierrepoint, whose father and uncle had been long drop hangmen and taught him the necessary calculations.<br /><br />For some reason, American hangmen had a tendency to botch the long drop, leading to the decapitation of the condemned. Inexperience perhaps, or insufficient knowledge of how to calculate the drop. Tom Ketchum's decapitation -- attempted train robbery, 1901 -- was commemmorated with photo postcards of his headless corpse. 30 years later, a habitual husband-murderer was executed in Arizona, and her head rolled to the feet of some women spectators. Arizona introduced the gas chamber. <br /><br />So much more humane to onlookers. <br /><br />However, the long death throes in the gas chamber led to states barring spectators. In 1992, an Arizona prisoner took 11 minutes to die. He occupied his time in cursing the state attorney-general, who denied that he had become physically sick. The prison governor said he would resign rather than administer another gas chamber death. The state promptly changed the method to lethal injection. <br /><br />So much more humane to executioners.David Harleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2456802468539868519.post-62312754410701476812012-05-25T20:26:03.747-07:002012-05-25T20:26:03.747-07:00Not drugged, but some were mercifully allowed to s...Not drugged, but some were mercifully allowed to strangle to death during the hanging. (the drop hang that would break your neck doesn't come along for several more centuries). It is similar to the mercy of putting a bag of gunpowder around the neck of someone being burned alive to hasten their torment. (vividly illustrated by Nancy in The Crown)Diane Holcomb Wilsherenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2456802468539868519.post-31059231035004853862012-05-25T19:11:43.253-07:002012-05-25T19:11:43.253-07:00While not usually classified as torture, but as ex...While not usually classified as torture, but as execution, hanging, drawing and quartering (of which you offer such a vivid illustration) goes back certainly to the early 13th century and the reign of Henry III if not before. <br /><br />The victim was hanged, cut down while still alive so he could watch his executioners disemboweling him, then he was "quartered" -- hacked into four pieces, each with a limb attached. <br /><br />Henry III had a man who attempted to murder him not only dealt with in this manner, but ordered the four parts of him to be dragged by horses through the streets of the three ancient, holy cities: Winchester, Canterbury, London and Coventry. <br /><br />I believe it was a 16th century hanging/drawing/quartering where the victim was heard to remark as he watched his entrails unwound, "Oh, more troubles." Which has led me to wonder if these victims were mercifully drugged.Katherine Ashehttp://www.simon-de-montfort.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2456802468539868519.post-817546710225689842012-05-25T14:59:00.577-07:002012-05-25T14:59:00.577-07:00Fascinating post, Nancy. I've ordered The Cro...Fascinating post, Nancy. I've ordered The Crown and can barely wait to dive in! It will be my reward for finishing the second round of revision on my novel about Sir Thomas More and his daughter, Margaret. It is interesting that so much of what Sir Thomas feared would happen if Henry and his advisors were left unchecked did happen--and in short order. Thanks for shining a light on a period that has been glossed over.<br /><br />PS--I may have missed it, but did you ever get a chance to visit a "priest hole" during your research? That is on my list for next time I'm in England.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2456802468539868519.post-21444542802351765922012-05-25T14:05:45.542-07:002012-05-25T14:05:45.542-07:00I just watched that episode of Elizabeth R where p...I just watched that episode of Elizabeth R where poor Babington was told what will happen to him when he is to be executed. Horrible. <br /><br />In all fairness, I think a more comprehensive picture emerges when one considers Walsingham's fear of Catholic resurgance in England after witnessing the atrocities of the St. Bartholomew's massacre in Paris and certainly Elizabeth's time spent in the shadow of the scaffold.<br /><br />Wonderful post.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2456802468539868519.post-57147874310307772212012-05-25T09:19:59.575-07:002012-05-25T09:19:59.575-07:00The strange thing about torture in England is that...The strange thing about torture in England is that its use was almost entirely confined to the reign of Elizabeth. There were few cases before or after then, and it rapidly fell into disuse under the Stuarts. As legal authors pointed out, torture had no place in English law.<br /><br />Its use was justified purely as a means of discovery, and it was normally confined to sedition and treason, with a view to uncovering those most secret of conspiracies. There were real conspiracies against the Queen, but some that were supposedly discovered have always looked questionable.<br /><br />It is striking that Cotton Mather, writing in a letter about the severe problems of evidence in the Salem trials, described the use of torture as "un-English." This is the first example of that coinage that I have seen, but it accurately points to a major reason for the low level of witchcraft prosecution and conviction under English law. The absence of torture obstructed the creation of the long trains of accusations seen in some of the German territories. The East Anglian and New England outbreaks were exceptional, arising partly because of the brief disruption of normal legal procedures.<br /><br />Those interested in the topic can trace cases by looking at the Privy Council Registers, only a few of which are missing, as each case had to be licensed. They have all been transcribed and printed. However, it is harder to discover whether a suspect was tortured much, or even at all. Letting an old man hear the screams of supposed co-conspirators and showing the instruments was often enough, as in the case of Dr Rodrigo Lopez, who retracted his confession at his Guildhall trial.<br /><br />The role of torture in this period has been discussed for France and Germany, but the best account for England is probably that by Elizabeth Hanson, who considers the legal and epistemological status of torture in some detail.<br /><br />Elizabeth Hanson, "Torture and Truth in Renaissance England," Representations, 34 (Spring, 1991) 53-84. <br /><br />eadem, Discovering the Subject in Renaissance England (Cambridge UP, 2008) esp. 24-54.David Harleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2456802468539868519.post-51119515613069248222012-05-25T03:28:00.312-07:002012-05-25T03:28:00.312-07:00That is very interesting. I know that there was an...That is very interesting. I know that there was an actual school of poisoners in the 16th century in Venice, and their "work" was made use of in other parts of Europe.Nancy Bilyeauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03081147714919653976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2456802468539868519.post-84591400878136909092012-05-25T01:21:02.019-07:002012-05-25T01:21:02.019-07:00I think that the Tudor's love affair with the ...I think that the Tudor's love affair with the methods of the Venetians and vice versa is of note. Byron's play The Two Foscari is instructive in this regard. Henry VIII was in fact beholden to the advice of a peculiar Venetian monk Giorgi (or Zorzi) for his vicious marriage strategy. A sea faring and trading empire, Venetian's had much to teach about torture and secret services in maintaining an empire...Thingumbobesquirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12020353989252293669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2456802468539868519.post-52021298050994003732012-05-24T23:56:00.102-07:002012-05-24T23:56:00.102-07:00Yes - a very interesting article - and extremely t...Yes - a very interesting article - and extremely touching. I researched the use of the rack for my own book (Sumerford's Autumn) and was deeply moved by the appalling suffering which so many men were forced to experience - and by the horrific cruelty of the torturers involved. I'm not sure about Queen Elizabeth's humanity though - she treated many of her loyal servants extremely badly - even Walsingham.Barbara Gaskell Denvilnoreply@blogger.com